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~~2010~~ 2011: The Year Of The Femtocell?

Only if carriers get less punitive with the pricing

Friday Dec 17 2010 11:36 EDT

We've been talking for a few years now about how the femtocell industry keeps declaring that this will truly be the year of the femtocell, only to find those ambitions crushed by carriers. Femtocells, which route cell phone traffic over residential broadband connections, help carriers by easing tower congestion and consumers by improving in home cell reception. However, ISPs like Verizon and AT&T seem intent on sucking all the value out of the devices by overpricing the hardware, or implementing pricing plans that eat consumer minutes. According to the latest information from the femtocell industry's femtoforum, 2011 will be their year. And they mean it this time:

quote:

The past three months saw the first major acquisition in the femtocell industry, with Broadcom’s purchase of Israeli semiconductor start-up Percello. This validated the market, Informa said, and will help to drive competition in the space. There has also been a spate of operator deployment announcements... Additionally, Verizon Wireless and MoldTelecom, the Moldovan incumbent, both began actively offering 3G femtocell services in the past quarter.

While it's true Verizon started offering a 3G femtocell back in October, it's still not a particularly impressive unit. While some carriers smartly give the device away for free to retain customers in low signal areas, Verizon's $250 unit has a number of shortcomings, including failing to give you full security over who can access the device. It also still eats consumer voice minutes, meaning you're paying Verizon extra to use your own already-paid-for bandwidth, while easing congestion on their local towers.

Unless carriers like Verizon wise up on femto pricing, 2011 will be another no show for the technology.

tags: business · wireless · hardware · networking · consumers · cellular

2010 2011: The Year Of The Femtocell?

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hgf35 @thvilledigital.net	hgf35 Anon 2010-Dec-17 11:44 am Sprint's is Free Awesome and Free a month Sprint's is Free Awesome and Free a month
	2010-Dec-17 11:44 am: · hey mods ·

xenophon join:2007-09-17	xenophon Member 2010-Dec-17 1:39 pm Re: Sprint's is Free Awesome and Free a month Yeah, Sprint has been free for a while. If you don't get a good signal at home, they'll basically give you one without having to do much convincing. If you do have a hard time getting one, just ask for 'retentions' dept and threaten to cancel and you'll get one.
	2010-Dec-17 1:39 pm: · hey mods ·

digiblur Premium Member join:2002-06-03 Louisiana	digiblur to hgf35 Premium Member 2010-Dec-17 6:34 pm to hgf35 said by hgf35 : Sprint's is Free Awesome and Free a month Yes indeed... I've had one since 2008 and it's been free since then and still today.
	2010-Dec-17 6:34 pm: · hey mods ·

xenophon join:2007-09-17	xenophon Member 2010-Dec-18 2:20 pm Re: Sprint's is Free Awesome and Free a month Yeah, so the year of femtocell was 2008. Karl only recognizes VZW though so if VZW doesn't do it, then it doesn't exist.
	2010-Dec-18 2:20 pm: · hey mods ·

DataDoc
My avatar looks like me, if I was 2D.
Premium Member
join:2000-05-14
Hedgesville, WV

Premium Member

2010-Dec-17 11:59 am

Maybe they think it's giving you a home line for free

It seems carriers see their land line numbers disappearing, and don't want to give away cell service to replace it. I'm wondering how many cells are only used at home (within range of the femtocell) vs via traditional tower. I think giving away femtocells with "free" minutes included could only build their business and increase goodwill.

2010-Dec-17 11:59 am: · hey mods ·

Kearnstd Space Elf Premium Member join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ	Kearnstd Premium Member 2010-Dec-17 12:12 pm Re: Maybe they think it's giving you a home line for free increasing goodwill is not what the shareholders want to see. they only want to see dollars from all avenues possible. Yet a smart shareholder would see a Femtocell in every home as taking load off the towers meaning less load to forecast for when buying upgrades to the wireless network.
	2010-Dec-17 12:12 pm: · hey mods ·

C0deZer0 Oc'D To Rhythm And Police Premium Member join:2001-10-03 Tempe, AZ	C0deZer0 Premium Member 2010-Dec-18 8:49 am Re: Maybe they think it's giving you a home line for free And this is why day traders need to get to be once again barred from Wall St. They get their panties in a bunch and you'd think world war 3 just happened because they only earned 100.04 instead of 100.040000001 on their 'folio.
	2010-Dec-18 8:49 am: · hey mods ·

Camelot One
MVM
join:2001-11-21
Bloomington, IN

1 recommendation

MVM

2010-Dec-18 1:16 pm

Re: Maybe they think it's giving you a home line for free

I don't agree with banning them, but I do think the US economy needs some modification to capitol gains taxes. Less than a year should be taxed as short term, under current rates. A middle term should be created for 1-5 years, using the current long term rates. And a new long term of 5+ years created with a flat rate, below the person's income tax rate.

This would encourage an investment environment concerned with the long term viability of a company, rather than the "how much can we screw our customers today, with no concern for tomorrow" view investors have now.

2010-Dec-18 1:16 pm: · hey mods ·

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Premium Member

2010-Dec-18 3:13 pm

Re: Maybe they think it's giving you a home line for free

thats just it, even me if I did my own trading id want a company I can sit on for a long period of time. because even though dividends are not as profitable as selling stock, I like to call them my "Paycheck for sitting on my ass" because a good stock buy and then holding it makes more gain over the 5-10 year term.

2010-Dec-18 3:13 pm: · hey mods ·

sapo Cruising Down Memory Lane Premium Member join:2002-09-16 Sacramento, CA	sapo to DataDoc Premium Member 2010-Dec-17 4:01 pm to DataDoc If you could get unlimited minutes with it I'd drop my VOIP.
	2010-Dec-17 4:01 pm: · hey mods ·

Mr Anon
@k12.il.us

Mr Anon

Anon

2010-Dec-17 1:03 pm

My VZ issue.

Is that I don't know how many you can put behind an IP. When I contacted my rep he said that it wouldn't work for VZs PTT (software) service that required 3G.

The way we currently have our service with them setup I need to put many units behind 1 or a few IP addresses and possibly a different approach to the GPS lock issue. Most of my builds have Metal layers between the floor and roof as well most to all utilities ran over head. If I can't get good wireless I don't think I'll get a GPS lock. If I could register this to a building address? Get a lock to the front door and maybe list what unit made the 911 call.

I'd like to keep other off of it as well but I'd need either to just point to my account or list all the numbers by CSV at a concentrator... in short I need an enterprise extender.

2010-Dec-17 1:03 pm: · hey mods ·

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Premium Member

2010-Dec-17 1:22 pm

Re: My VZ issue.

said by Mr Anon :

Is that I don't know how many you can put behind an IP. When I contacted my rep he said that it wouldn't work for VZs PTT (software) service that required 3G.

The way we currently have our service with them setup I need to put many units behind 1 or a few IP addresses and possibly a different approach to the GPS lock issue. Most of my builds have Metal layers between the floor and roof as well most to all utilities ran over head. If I can't get good wireless I don't think I'll get a GPS lock. If I could register this to a building address? Get a lock to the front door and maybe list what unit made the 911 call.

I'd like to keep other off of it as well but I'd need either to just point to my account or list all the numbers by CSV at a concentrator... in short I need an enterprise extender.

you sound like a commercial customer, I am surprised they would not have a separate service for such users where they could say come out and get the GPS chords for your buildings and then register your IP on their system as a cell tower(because id imagine in the outside world if my cell phone cant get GPS due to trees or a tunnel, E911 still knows what GPS located towers I am near)

2010-Dec-17 1:22 pm: · hey mods ·

Eagles1221 join:2009-04-29 Vincentown, NJ	Eagles1221 Member 2010-Dec-17 1:28 pm Re: My VZ issue. I'm a commercial customer too and they don't really offer anything. For the local hospital they put a repeater up which enhances the signal in the building but doesn't reduce the load on the tower though since it just boosts the signal.
	2010-Dec-17 1:28 pm: · hey mods ·

rradina join:2000-08-08 Chesterfield, MO	rradina to Kearnstd Member 2010-Dec-17 1:30 pm to Kearnstd In urban areas (lots of towers), Wikipedia claims cell-tower triangulation can be within 50 meters. That's roughly half-a-football-field. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mo ··· tracking
	2010-Dec-17 1:30 pm: · hey mods ·

Matt3 All noise, no signal. Premium Member join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC	Matt3 to Mr Anon Premium Member 2010-Dec-17 2:18 pm to Mr Anon said by Mr Anon : I'd like to keep other off of it as well but I'd need either to just point to my account or list all the numbers by CSV at a concentrator... in short I need an enterprise extender. There are tons of enterprise extenders, but they aren't as cheap as Femtocells.
	2010-Dec-17 2:18 pm: · hey mods ·

Mahalo join:2000-12-20 united state	Mahalo Member 2010-Dec-17 3:17 pm Re: My VZ issue. Agree. ATT was going to charge me $4,000 to put a repeater in our building. Instead I got one femtocell for $150. Problem solved.
	2010-Dec-17 3:17 pm: · hey mods ·

Hangmn Don't Fight It...It's Inevitable Premium Member join:2000-04-08 Philadelphia, PA	Hangmn Premium Member 2010-Dec-17 1:28 pm Wait..WHAT? Pricing??? I will gladly LEASE my electricity and MY PAID FOR broadband connection for a carrier to extend their reach..anyone who PAYS for this is truly an idiot.
	2010-Dec-17 1:28 pm: · hey mods ·

FLATLINE join:2007-02-27 Buffalo, NY	FLATLINE Member 2010-Dec-17 5:19 pm Re: Wait..WHAT? Exactly!!!!!!!
	2010-Dec-17 5:19 pm: · hey mods ·

Matt3 All noise, no signal. Premium Member join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC	Matt3 Premium Member 2010-Dec-17 2:16 pm AT&T I just bought one for $149, no monthly fee. I HAVE to carry an AT&T cell for work, so it's worthwhile for me. My AT&T coverage is horrid at home.
	2010-Dec-17 2:16 pm: · hey mods ·

Otto Pylot @attens.net	Otto Pylot Anon 2010-Dec-17 4:38 pm Re: AT&T We purchased the AT&T Microcell back in June for the same reason, lousy or no coverage in our home. We only paid $100 and no monthly fee. Coverage is great and trouble free. However, we still have a landline so cell use is limited mostly to our children. No impact at all on our monthly cell plan either.
	2010-Dec-17 4:38 pm: · hey mods ·

dervari2 join:2000-01-17 Atlanta, GA	dervari2 Member 2010-Dec-17 7:50 pm Re: AT&T said by FLATLINE: You have to carry an At&T phone? Or you couldnt live without an iPhone? You must not have a company cell phone. The companies go with whoever they can get the best deal with the the employees have to live with it.
	2010-Dec-17 7:50 pm: · hey mods ·

Matt3 All noise, no signal. Premium Member join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC	Matt3 to Anon Premium Member 2010-Dec-18 2:31 am to Anon said by FLATLINE: You have to carry an At&T phone? Or you couldnt live without an iPhone? Just to reinforce the point below me, we ban iPhones. I have a Crackberry.
	2010-Dec-18 2:31 am: · hey mods ·

jus10 join:2009-08-04 Gainesville, VA	jus10 Member 2010-Dec-17 2:21 pm Try VOIP calling What the heck do I need a femtocell for when my phone should be able to call over wifi fine?
	2010-Dec-17 2:21 pm: · hey mods ·

chgo_man99 join:2010-01-01 Sunnyvale, CA	chgo_man99 Member 2010-Dec-18 12:46 am Re: Try VOIP calling convenience, better reliability (less conflict with neighbor signals), seamless roaming between indoor and outdoor.
	2010-Dec-18 12:46 am: · hey mods ·

atuarre
Here come the drums
Premium Member
join:2004-02-14
EC/SETX SWLA

Premium Member

2010-Dec-17 2:44 pm

RE

What's the point of a Femtocell? I remember when someone had mentioned that one of the carriers were giving you one, that used your internet, and were not charging you for minutes but that has all changed. At least with T-Mobile and UMA on some of their phones, if you are on there little plan they have, you can talk as long as you want and it does not cost you any minutes.

2010-Dec-17 2:44 pm: · hey mods ·

e7654eruyt5 @thvilledigital.net	e7654eruyt5 Anon 2010-Dec-17 4:00 pm Re: RE No not really Sprint's 3G one is free, and there is no monthly.
	2010-Dec-17 4:00 pm: · hey mods ·

dorksaber join:2009-02-16 Lexington, MI	dorksaber to atuarre Member 2010-Dec-17 4:37 pm to atuarre ...
	2010-Dec-17 4:37 pm: · hey mods ·

Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Member

2010-Dec-17 5:11 pm

tower congestion?

Is "tower congestion" actually an issue for voice calls? I know it is for data but I can never recall not being able to make a voice call on Verizon's network. Even when I went to the Obama inauguration with millions of other people not normally in DC I had no issue making or receiving calls.

In all my years of using cell phones I can only recall one time when I wasn't able to complete a voice call in spite of having signal. That was on T-Mobile in the Outer Banks.

2010-Dec-17 5:11 pm: · hey mods ·

psiu join:2004-01-20 Farmington, MI	psiu Member 2010-Dec-18 10:02 am Re: tower congestion? Actually dropped a couple calls this week. Bad roads and a busy area next to freeway interchange at rush hour = everyone stuck and on the phone apparently. Got an error message the first time too. Only time though for me too.
	2010-Dec-18 10:02 am: · hey mods ·

Crookshanks join:2008-02-04 Binghamton, NY	Crookshanks Member 2010-Dec-19 8:45 pm Re: tower congestion? Which carrier? I hate VZW's business practices but they won my everlasting respect when I had a working phone at the Obama inauguration and all my friends on other carriers couldn't even send texts, let alone make calls. VZW knows how to build a network.
	2010-Dec-19 8:45 pm: · hey mods ·

jef3 join:2009-04-14 Redwood City, CA	jef3 Member 2010-Dec-18 10:44 am AT&T Still Doesn't "Get It" So my experience with AT&T on this can be summed up as, "Wait a minute -- you want me to pay $150 for your hardware, which is going to consume my bandwidth (which I pay for from someone other than AT&T) for your benefit, and charge me for airtime as well?"
	2010-Dec-18 10:44 am: · hey mods ·

WaltFrench
join:2010-08-07
Oakland, CA

Member

2010-Dec-19 12:33 am

Pricing

I guess I don't understand why, if AT&T's local tower isn't TOO congested, they'd see it in their interest to hand me a femtocell.

Granted, my AT&T service isn't that great here. OTOH, my wife's Verizon BlackBerry gives a similar number of bars; it wouldn't be that clever for me to jump from AT&T to Verizon for better coverage. (Sprint, T-Mo? I used 'em both and neither had the coverage I needed.) And if I'm not likely to jump ship, why should AT&T worry about losing me? I don't see going cold turkey.

How much do these little gizmos actually cost, anyway? Seems they're not unlike a wifi router, with the addition of GSM, G3, GPS and who knows what else. So that's more than a router, and routers have only in the last year or two come down dramatically in cost as competition and volumes increased.

So femtocells seem still on the verge, not ready for mass market pricing. Any hard-n-fast facts to the contrary?

2010-Dec-19 12:33 am: · hey mods ·

old_wiz_60
join:2005-06-03
Bedford, MA

Member

2010-Dec-19 11:13 am

Not going to happen...

As the story says, the carriers totally screw the whole idea by ridiculous pricing. I have Verizon FIOS and a verizon cell phone, but I get zero bars in my neighborhood, so I can't use the cell phone at home. A femtocell would certainly help, but why would I want to pay $250 to buy the damn thing? The FAQ shows it only works within 40 feet of the device, so I couldn't even use it in my back yard. If they really wanted people to use it they would give them away.

2010-Dec-19 11:13 am: · hey mods ·

anonym @lgk.com	anonym Anon 2010-Dec-19 10:33 pm i did get it free att did give it away i got one for free. to use at home.. works pretty well.. needs a reboot every now and then and once in awhile still drops calls. maybe 1 out of 10.. after 5 minutes. but much better than it was.
	2010-Dec-19 10:33 pm: · hey mods ·

mjmsr Premium Member join:2001-08-25 Lombard, IL	mjmsr Premium Member 2010-Dec-20 9:22 pm Re: i did get it free I negotiated a price of $50.00 for mine (ATT) and it works great. Get great coverage in my home where I had frequent dropped calls and/or no coverage. Have not had any problems at all. 5 bars everywhere.....
	2010-Dec-20 9:22 pm: · hey mods ·

your comment..